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IRC Chat Log 6/8/03
In this chat, Rich Baker and I answered questions about Unapproachable East and a few on Ghostwalk. Thanks to Arthur for organizing this chat.
ArthurQ: Gotta set up logging.
ToEToE: hey hey RichBaker
RichBaker: Anybody else here from the Northwest? We're cooking today.
BlackKnight: Hey Rich, any chance of a another Jack Ravenwild book?
ArthurQ: I'm from NYC.
* ToEToE remembers good ol rich
talster: im from the nyc too
ToEToE: me and rich go waaaaaaaay back
Sammael: I am a long way from the U.S.
RichBaker: Blackknight: I'd like to someday, but it'll be a while.
* ToEToE is in mississippi
RichBaker: Good to see you again, ToEToE.
RichBaker: Blackknight: I've got a trilogy to write before I get back to Jack.
RichBaker: Jack Ravenwild, protagonist of "City of Ravens".
ArthurQ: FR novel i presume
RichBaker: Yep. Came out in December 2001, I think.
ArthurQ: ah....havnt read it.
ArthurQ: I've been meaning to pick up Condemnation though.
ArthurQ: i belive you wrote that one right?
talster: yeah i cant wait to read it
BlackKnight: It a good one arthur, i recomend it
RichBaker: Yep, I wrote Condemnation. Hope you enjoy it!
ArthurQ: I'm sure I will.
ArthurQ: Since the book is out anyway, care to give us a short summary of what happens?
BlackKnight: enjoy it?! damn man I put down HP + goblet of fire to read it best one yet
RichBaker: Have you read the previous books in War of the Spider Queen, Arthur?
ArthurQ: Goblet of Fire is out? i had that on pre-order.......o.0
ArthurQ: RichBaker: of course...
* .ArthurQ wishes he had a picture of that allu-fiend from the second book.....all those images of her pouting make me shiver.
RichBaker: Heh, heh. Yeah, she's not a nice girl, is she?
BlackKnight: sure your not thinking of Order of the phoenix, arthur?
ArthurQ: she's a nice bad girl......or bade nice girl.
ArthurQ: BlackKnight oops i am.....hehe
* .ArthurQ read all 4 Harry Potter books in less then a week.
ArthurQ: thats over 2000 pages i think.
ArthurQ: Its amazing that i can do that, yet i cant read a 60 page college assignment if it took me 2 months.
BlackKnight: your mad arthur. back on toril....
Sammael: Is Ghostwalk an OK topic for tonight?
ArthurQ: exuse the following, its a message to all the channels i'm in
Loonook: wow... good thing I put on pants for this
ArthurQ: ATTENTION: RICHARD BAKER AND SEAN K REYNOLDS ARE IN #FORGOTTENREALMS FOR A CHAT ON UNAPPROACHABLE EAST AND FR!
SeanKR: That's fine with me. And since Rich was the creative director on it, he should have some comments, too.
RichBaker: Sure, fine by me.
BlackKnight: talk about blowing your own trumpet ;)
ArthurQ: I forgot about ghostwalk lol
ArthurQ: Coulda gotten Monte in here too!
ArthurQ: Ok, we have 16 people, not gonna moderate this.
ArthurQ: So the topic is Unapproachable East and Ghostwalk I Guess.
ArthurQ: I'll email Monte about a seprate ghostwalk chat about 3 weeks from now Sean....if you're up for it. (I'm moving in the next 2 weeks so I wont be available till then)
talster: sean, how do u work out ghostwalk, i honestly havent gotten it yet sorry ;), if the whole party is not killed?
@Michael_Morris: Hey all..
SeanKR: Tal, Ghostwalk lets your dead character's ghost show up about 10 minutes later. He's solid and can use equipment ... you can even carry your own dead body around.
RichBaker: That's kinda creepy.
SeanKR: So there's no reason for the party to separate. And yeah, it is creepy. :)
SeanKR: Especially because your ghost looks like you when you died. :0
Sammael: Is the ghost solid enough to fool people into thinking he is alove?
talster: can other people tell that ur dead?
BlackKnight: Ugh i just got an image of a partially eaten halfling
ArthurQ: If he has enough makeup maybe.
SeanKR: The ghost is obviously a ghost. Though I think there's a feat that can let you look solid, and
SeanKR: there's special alchemical makeup you can use for that purpose, too.
SeanKR: Before we let Rich get too bored with GW talk (we'll get back to it and bore him later), let's give him a moment to talk about his role in UE as designer and developer.
talster: rich, what was the coolest part about designing UE?
ArthurQ: I have a question for Rich on UE heh....
RichBaker: Well, our product specifications for U-East changed while we were working on it. The business team decided to make the book longer, and asked for more crunch.
RichBaker: So, it fell to me to add about 64 pages of crunchy material to the book.
BlackKnight: I smell bean counters....
SeanKR: Wow, I thought it was only 32. :)
RichBaker: (Some of that Sean had already written, of course, mostly for Rashemen.)
ArthurQ: keep it civil kids.
talster: did u, as designer, get to handle how what art made the cut and which didnt?
RichBaker: (And I'd been scheduled to do 32 pages of the book anyway.)
RichBaker: But I had a lot of fun building some very specific prestige classes, spells, and monsters for the setting.
HiLiph: Once again, the production value of this latest FR supplement is top shelf - niec work!
ArthurQ: Rich: Is it just me, or are the Racial Stats and Mods for some of the races posted twice....in the Race and Monster chapter... Specficially, the Taer, Vermonnii, and Spirit Folk..
RichBaker: So, as to what was most fun--probably the prestige classes, I'm pretty proud of those.
RichBaker: Talster: RE the art, no, we don't have as much control over that as I would like.
Sammael: Any favorites when it comes to PrCs?
talster: but u design the classes
talster: they r your concept
RichBaker: We see sketches, and we can disapprove the sketches, but if the finals come in and resemble the sketches but look crummy, we don't have a good leg to stand on to shoot them down.
BlackKnight: yeah i've got a friend in another group who wants to be a thayan slaver
* .ArthurQ waves a little flag towards his question.
RichBaker: So, I really don't dig the star elf "light bulbs", but it wasn't so clearly bad that it needed disapproving.
RichBaker: OK, Arthur: Yes, we repeated them.
RichBaker: Here's what we should have done:
ArthurQ: ah...was that a mistake? heh
RichBaker: We should have not repeated the "How to be a character" entry, and left the taer-as-PC info in the Races chapter.
RichBaker: However, I do think it was necessary to create a "monster entry" for the new races, so that you could see what a "base taer" or "base volodni" looked like as a monster.
RichBaker: Same way the MM gives you 1st-level dwarf warrior, 1st-level elf warrior, and so on.
ArthurQ: RichBaker: oh thats fine.....but i was reffering to the "how to be a pc" info.......that was rediculous.
ArthurQ: It's what annoyed me most about the book.
RichBaker: We'll try not to do it again.
talster: u said there was more crunch, r there any new weapons?
ArthurQ: Monster entries are fine......Kudos to that.
ArthurQ: 3 pages of stuff got cut though.
Sammael: Were so many new races really necessary?
talster: define necessity
Sammael: Especially considering that the book came out right after RoF
talster: its a source book
Sammael: Which was supposed to be THE book on races
talster: thats more general though
talster: ue is more specific
Sammael: I'd like Rich or Sean to answer, if you don't mind. ;)
talster: of course
RichBaker: RE: the Races of Faerun overlap, managing what goes into which sourcebook is one of the toughest early decisions we face in a product.
SeanKR: You have to remember that both of these books got pushed back ... I don't think they were supposed to come out right after each other like they did.
RichBaker: If we'd included them in both places, you guys would be fussing at us about the overlap.
HiLiph: Sean/Rich: I recall a while back that you had some doubts about WotC's commitment to the FRs - around the Lords of Darkness time - I think. Is the continuing support of the Realms now in the bag?
RichBaker: We're planning to keep doing 3-4 FR products a year until the cows come home.
HiLiph: Then steak is still on my plate ;)
RichBaker: We have to fight the business guys about exactly what those products are sometimes, but we want to keep doing 'em.
BlackKnight: then im planning on buyinf FR books until the cows come home...
Neko_Ali: I don't thing WOTC would ever give up on the Realms... I'm surprised it didn't become the 'default' campaign setting
Sammael: So far, the only 3E FR sourcebook I haven't bought is F&P. So, keep them coming...
RichBaker: You guys have been bugging me a lot. Ask Sean about Rashemen stuff.
RichBaker: He's the expert on that.
talster: sean, what part of ue what entirely yours?
Sammael: On behalf of BIS forum regulars, I have to ask why Minsc's stats weren't included. :)
ArthurQ: Sean: For the Beserker Lodges, would a second teir feat that allowed them to polymorph into the creature from their lodge while raging (only once a day) be too powerfull?
ArthurQ: for example, Fydor in Elaine's books.....who polymorphed or "wildshaped" i suppose, into a bear.
HiLiph: Or Boo's stats for that matter - wasn't he the real brains behind the whole Minsc operation anyway?
SeanKR: I wrote the section on Rashemen, including the Rashemen feats and a couple of its prestige classes. I think I did work on a couple of other prestige classes because (1) I wanted to do them, and (2) IIRC the other designer for that area didn't have a lot of experience doing prestige classes. But this was over a year ago now so it's sorta fuzzy. :)
ArthurQ: Will we see them as Web Enhancments maybe? :-D
SeanKR: Arthur: I dunno, it would depend on the stats. I'd have to think about it.
Sammael: Who did the Blightlord?
ArthurQ: Non magical standard creature, like a bear or an Elk..
@NiTessine: Ach, what I'd liked to see is the stats for a wood man...
ArthurQ: i think
SeanKR: Rich, isn't there a class in the book that lets you do that?
RichBaker: Sammael: That one was mine.
talster: sean/rich have u guys played the baldur's gate game?
RichBaker: Sean: Oriental Adventures has a Bear Warrior prestige class that lets you transform into a bear while raging.
SeanKR: Nope, I don't have a PC. Though I do work for Black Isle now and could scrounge up a copy to play at the office. :)
SeanKR: That must be what I was thinking of. Thanks, Rich. :)
Sammael: I think there's a Mac version of BG as well.
RichBaker: I'd make the totem animal transformation part of a prestige class, not a feat, IMO.
ats: hi all=I've a question (may already have been answered) - now that Unapproachable East is out, will there be any post-Rev3.5 "region" books?
ArthurQ: Underdark is the first one
RichBaker: ats: Sure, we've got Underdark coming out in November.
Sammael: Rich: I like the Blightlord class a lot. However, I don't think the "being proficient with the glaive but not using it" part makes too much sense.
ArthurQ: November? i thought that was September?!
RichBaker: and we've got another couple planned for 2004.
ArthurQ: I dont suppose Cormyr or Waterdeep is one of them? :-D
ArthurQ: and yea i know you cannot tell us
RichBaker: Arthur: I don't have the schedule here, so I might be wrong.
RichBaker: Sammael: That's because you might be a druid and heading for the blightlord class.
ats: I'd love to see some stuff on the "non-traditional" regions - i.e. I'd much prefer some good info on The Utter East or Dambrath than on Cormyr or Waterdeep
BlackKnight: I made the mistake of wanting a cormyr supplement on the FR mailing list that sorght stirred up a hornets nest any chance rich?
SeanKR: I recall that we wanted to cover a region like UE before doing Cormyr or the Dalelands YET AGAIN, right Rich?
RichBaker: Blackknight: We want to do Waterdeep, the Sword Coast, the Moonshaes, the Moonsea, the shining south, the old empires, the dragon coast, the western heartlands...
Sammael: Couldn't you have made an exception for druids of Talona, just as the druids of Mielikki can use ranger weapons without being in violation of their oaths?
RichBaker: the dalelands, cormyr, sembia, the vast...
ArthurQ: he's naming everything
ats: LOL - I'm sure that given free reign, all regions could be covered in excruciating detail
ArthurQ: hoped he was hinting
Sammael: Also, would that be a reasonable house rule?
RichBaker: It's hard to say where Cormyr fits in that list.
* Timati is now known as Kalanyr
Sammael: BTW, I vote for the Shining South for the next region book
ArthurQ: I dont suppose there is any chance we'll see Sean freelancing in the future? maybe? kinda? sorta? nudge nudge*
RichBaker: Sean: Definitely yes.
ats: Something that I've yet to see in *any* of the 3rd edition regional books, or any other 3rd edition supplment -
ats: some information on the inspiration for the region/nation/locale
RichBaker: I'd prefer to hit some territory hit only once in previous editions before going back to the Dales or the North.
ats: i.e. - real-world
RichBaker: And, in fact, you guys are going to see just that in 2004.
RichBaker: (Something you only saw once a few years back, I mean.)
Sammael: It's good to hear that\
IIsi50MHz: (( eek, I look away and the buffer fills up. *read read* ))
SeanKR: Arthur, I just don't have time to be doing any freelancing right now. I'm also enjoying not having deadlines for the first time in years.... :)
ArthurQ: To quote someone else Sean..."SKR is the man who made FR playable again"
Sammael: That's not entirely fair to other FR designers
ArthurQ: If i could i'd chain you in a basmement and have you bang them out one after another :-P
SeanKR: That's because I brainwashed Ed Greenwood into writing my sections. ;)
Sammael: Doesn't Ed have thousands of pages of FR materials ready to be printed?
ats: But, isn't freelancing even more unstable than being employed? The whole work-for-hire issue plus no benefits of being a full-time employee
ArthurQ: Both have their benefits.
HiLiph: The secret ingredient in the FRs is Canadian content ;)
SeanKR: ats: true, which is why I have a full-time job at Black Isle Studios. :)
talster: so u write material for black isle's software?
ArthurQ: Well sean, if you WERE asked to write freelance again, and you accepted, which book would you want to write most?
SeanKR: I design areas and dialogue for BIS games, yes.
IIsi50MHz: Canadian beer with Japanese branding? Erm...*hushes*
SeanKR: Arthur, no idea ... it depends on what WotC has on their schedule. I actually haven't thought about active FR design in over a year, as I've been busy with other projects. :)
ats: Something that (and I don't want to open a can of worms or offend anyone) - but there has been a lot of discussion
ArthurQ: like Anger of Angels (which i can say with perfect confidence is a GREAT book)
ats: over the issue of "breaking" 1st/2nd edition information
Sammael: Sean & Rich: How much time do you guys have for PnP sessions per week?
SeanKR: ats, I'm not sure what you mean.
Kalanyr: Pen and paper gaming
SeanKR: Samael, I'm in a once-a-week FR game run by Josh Sawyer, my boss at BIS. Last I heard Rich was in at least one weekly session, too.
ArthurQ: Sean: i think he means inconsistencies between flavor text
ats: Sean: i.e., "This book said this..." "This new book says this, and it is different - so it must be wrong..."
RichBaker: Ah. I play once a week on Monday nights, with Ed Stark, James Wyatt, Dave Noonan, and some other folks you've never heard of.
ArthurQ: heh, Dave is quite the hard charcter to contact......he skimped in the d20modern chat i hosted.....ah well :-p
IIsi50MHz: PnP, similar to Plug'n'Pray, but more effective.
RichBaker: I'd play more, but my wife won't let me.
ats: How do you approach people who (and I'm sure this must happen more often than not) who complain about your (or anyone else's) hard work
Sammael: Do you guys play in home-made worlds or established settings?
SeanKR: ats: You have to accept criticism, and learn to recognize when criticism is actually just whining. ;)
RichBaker: Sammael: Little of both. We're about to start a 3.5 Dark Sun game.
ArthurQ: Rich: whats the deal with Athas.org
SeanKR: Samael, Josh's game is an FR game. When I find the time to run a game here in San Diego, it'll be a Ghostwalk game. Which in some ways is a homemade world, yet an established setting. ;)
ArthurQ: just how official is it?
* Neko_Ali is now known as Fatima
ats: LOL - I've run into my own issues with whining (from my players) about my own decisions as to which 1st/2nd/3rd edition information is "true" and which is "rumor/myth/lore"
Sammael: SeanKR: as someone who knows the inns and outs of FR, how does it feel to play in somebody else's FR campaign?
ArthurQ: ats: you are the DM, if they dont like your vision.....they dont have to play.
RichBaker: ats: My feeling is this--we can and will change 1E/2E source material for 3E if we think we have a better, more game-friendly take on something. But I hope to make those changes deliberately and consciously; I'd like to know what we're throwing out when we throw it out.
Kalanyr: How come there isn't always an ingame explanation for when certain things are removed ?
BlackKnight: cos you cant always think of one
RichBaker: ats: For better or worse, our business plan for FR is that it's got to be a great 3rd Edition D&D world first and foremost, even if that comes at the expense of continuity with previous editions.
SeanKR: It's funny, this is the first actual FR campaign I've played in. :) Anyway, we're currently in the Vast, which is an area I didn't write for the FRCS so I'm not a total expert in it. And Josh doesn't mind asking me questions. Though it's funny when one of the other players asks,
ArthurQ: Kalanyr: there is one for the drow situation, thanks to elaine.
ats: RichBaker: understood
SeanKR: Why is Josh always asking you stuff about the game? and I answer "because my name is on the book." ;)
Sammael: Perhaps it is a consequence of some bad ingame explanations of the past... such as some of the ToT stuff
Sammael: SeanKR: LOL.
ats: I've always approached the potential discrepancies as opportunities
* Guest25 is now known as pentalarc
ArthurQ: Sean: can i convince you to run a one shot session at gencon? maybe one of the evenings? hehe, or maybe you rich? hehehehe
SeanKR: Re: old material, it's also because FR was not only the dumping ground for all material, some of the designers got really crazy, with flying rooms in festhalls and some backwater inns with magical elevators ... stuff that made no sense and made the setting seem silly. That's the stuff we wanted to get rid of.
RichBaker: Not likely for me at GenCon. We're super-busy there.
ats: i.e. chalk it up to the writings of historians with a different view point
SeanKR: Arthur: I don't know what my schedule is like yet for GenCon.
ArthurQ: aww snap
Cheiro: I have a question for Sean about the unusual spell lists for the Nar Demonbinder and the Nentyar Hunter PrC's. Both classes would have made excellent +1 Spellcaster/Level PrC's; why did you choose to take these classes in a different direction? Doesn't it open the game up to some really weird min/max combo's with other "+1 spellcaster/level" PrC's?
Sammael: How do you feel about working on FR projects with people who have little FR experience?
ats: I think that a simple solution like that (which works well) somehow doesn't fly with the whiners simply because they assume that a designer must be omnipotent
* Kalanyr says ouch at Cheiro
ArthurQ: well, thats one way to ask a question.
* Parts: Fatima (Neko_Ali@*.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net)
ArthurQ: at least it wasnt caps.
IIsi50MHz: Ooh, power questions
RichBaker: Cheiro: I wanted to increase the tools in the toolbox.
SeanKR: You'll have to ask Rich about those, as I didn't write those classes.
RichBaker: In other words, we have some mechanics we use a lot (like +1 level of spellcasting), and sometimes we want to stretch out and create broader applications for our mechanics.
Kalanyr: Rich: doesn't it have the side effect of preventing them ever getting new spells added to their lists from additional supplements though ?
SeanKR: When working with someone with little FR experience (as I was on my first two FR books), you figure out what their skills are, give them a small area to study, research, and work on, and encourage them to come to you with questions.
RichBaker: So, the Nentyar hunter has a unique spell progression we haven't seen in any other class.
ats: My own thoughts on the new prestige classes in Unapproachable East is "who cares about the mechanics, the PrC's are cool *and* reasonable"
Kalanyr: or silly things like the Demonologist in BoVD who at best can cast a Summon Monster VIII for demons only
Kalanyr: because of his independent spelllist
RichBaker: Kalanyr: Yes, that is a drawback. Good observation. I'd suggest that a DM with multiple books might want to continue to evolve and fine-tune the class spell lists as more material becomes available.
ats: I have to complement all of the people who worked on the FR books for 3rd edition - almost all of the prestige classes seem to have a purpose
ats: unlike some of those in other various (WOTC and non-WOTC) publications
Dark_Arabin: And everyone of the FR Books have been truly top notch
Sammael: Unlike the Mystic Theurge
Sammael: But that's another story
talster: sean/rich which prestige classes r your favorites?
Doc: The 3e FR Campaign Book was well written and but together imo
Sammael: BTW, how come FR books are printed on better paper than core books?
IIsi50MHz: FRCS seems the same, to me.
ArthurQ: Cause FR deserves it
RichBaker: In UEast, my favorites are the Nar Demonbinder and Raumathari battlemage. They're rooted in the setting, and they're cool.
BlackKnight: You mean rusty finger syndrome sammael?
ArthurQ: Rich: ok a bit more serious right now. Can you tell us anything about the Forgotten Realms Players Guide?
SeanKR: Tal, that's a big question, as I've written quite a few. Care to narrow it down to just 1 or 2 books?
RichBaker: Sammael: Part of the FR business plan is to sell qualtiy. So we have high production values.
ArthurQ: something that hasnt been said before, but that wont violate any NDA's or rules.
Dark_Arabin: I was reallu impressed that in both UE and SM a great job was done in covering old material and in presenting a wealth of new stuff that really meshed well with established info
ArthurQ: hey Shawn
KingOfChaos: Heya Art :)
SeanKR: BRB, yet again
KingOfChaos: Heya Sean! :D
* Parts: SeanKR (~SeanKR@*.cvx27-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net)
IIsi50MHz: allo KingOfFjoin
KingOfChaos: Heh..I ran em' off :P SeanKR No such nick/channel SeanKR End of /WHOIS list -
RichBaker: Arthur: I've said a fair amount already on WotC's message boards. Something new... OK, we've tackled the regions again. We've divvied them up by race and come up with a more thorough approach, because we've got more space in the Player's Guide.
* IIsi50MHz whispers the word return for SeanKR
KingOfChaos: Wb Sean :)
RichBaker: Since a dwarf from the Silver Marches really isn't the same as an elf or human of the Silver Marches, there's a distinct region for each in the FR Player's Guide.
Sammael: Will the book have any fluff, or will it be all crunchy?
ArthurQ: Ah....i dont really read every post there.....could we get a quick summary of what you've said there?
ArthurQ: Will the FRPG update the timeline too? It seems as if the current supplements also all start at the same date for the FRCS, i thought each one would also bring the current date forward.
Dark_Arabin: Good question Arthur
ArthurQ: Its been almost 2 years.....It certainly cant still be the Year of Wild Magic on Toril.
RichBaker: Arthur: Briefly, it's your one-stop 3.5 update to the key mechanical aspects of the FR setting. Plus, we also integrate Manual of the Planes, Epic Level, Book of Vile Darkness, psionics, and other core expansions too.
ats: My wishlist for the Player's Guide - expand the regions and languages
Dark_Arabin: Rich, would you care to comment on the future approach to FR products (specifically in regard to WotC deciding to produce no adventure modules for the forseeable future)?
RichBaker: Arthur: And yes, the timeline advances a bit.
ArthurQ: ah! BOVD and MOTP! GREAT.
Dark_Arabin: sorry about the bold
ats: And list next to each region, the real-world inspiration for the culture and language
SeanKR: How would you want to expand the languages?
ArthurQ: does this mean we will not get a seprate FR Planes book?
ats: oh - and list coinages for each regions (minted in and accepted by)
ArthurQ: Ats: thats a great idea
* KingOfChaos doesn't consider the FR 'planes' actual planes, but divine realms attached to an existing plane.
RichBaker: Dark Arabin: Look for FR adventures in Dungeon magazine.
Sammael: Will it include an official (optional) way to re-incorporate FR into the Great Wheel?
IIsi50MHz: Dark embarassed himself and left (heh)
ArthurQ: he's back
ats: SeanKR: well, whether or not you choose to accept old or new information, the Southern Moonshaes, for example, are populated mostly by the Ffolk
IIsi50MHz: Better (:
Guest33: No he's still here
Kalanyr: How come the entire cosmology was rewritten for 3e FR anyway ?
SeanKR: I can answer that, Rich. :)
RichBaker: Help yourself!
ArthurQ: It was Seans idea
ats: who, according to various old and new supplments, speak Waelan as well as other languages
Sammael: It was Sean's *bad* idea. :P
RichBaker: (And it was Sean's idea!)
SeanKR: Whhops, I just lost a line of text. This'll take a second...
KingOfChaos: I don't think they wanted to touch on the 'planescape' aspect from 2E because they didn't know how WOTC was going to handle the planes in 3E?
SeanKR: The Great Wheel was written back in the 1970s by Gary Gygax.
SeanKR: He wrote it for Greyhawk, which has a stronger law/chaos, good/evil polarity than FR.
ats: likewise, I think that possible quantifying all of the various dialects of elven or dwarven would be a nice touch
SeanKR: (Drawn from Moorcock's Elric books, which were not an inspiration for FR.)
Sammael: Hmmm? There is a distinct alignment polarity in FR
RichBaker: ats: Keep in mind the mechanics of languages. Every time we add a new language, we make the 2 skill points you spent learning another one a worse choice than it already was.
SeanKR: With 2E, TSR was required to use the same cosmology for all worlds, even though that sometimes made no sense - the Asgardian gods didn't all live in Olympus, the Egyptian gods didn't all live in the same place, etc.
Sammael: Why would all the gods from the same pantheon live on the same plane?
@Michael_Morris: Got a question for you two :)
ats: RichBaker: well, *true*, but then again - you have to look at the real world for some help - all of those people in the former Soviet Union spoke multiple languages, as well as the official Russian
SeanKR: With FR, we had the opportunity to arrange our cosmology in a way that made sense for FR, had the allied gods together, reflected the "everybody and everything comes to Toril" theme presented in the books and games, and wasn't shackled to a cosmology written 20 years ago for an entirely different world. So we did it.
* @Michael_Morris comes out of the shadows in the corner :)
ats: likewise, people in S. Florida, Texas, or California are likely to speak Spanish as well as English
Kalanyr: why would asgardian gods live on olympus ?
ArthurQ: they wouldnt
ArthurQ: thats his point
Kalanyr: Shouldn't they be at Asgard ?
ats: therefore, a rules mod might be in order as a variant rule
KingOfChaos: Heh..that's what he is saying..
Sammael: That was a lapsus calami
*bynw* whispers: remember a whisper is private ... i added an access line to the channel for SeanK .. i hope you dont mind
SeanKR: Oops, I meant "Greek gods live in Olympus"
Kalanyr: they weren't
* KingOfChaos still likes the planescape planes, though..
Kalanyr: they were on Ysgard anyway
Kalanyr: with a couple of exceptions
* KingOfChaos was raised on Planescape :P
Sammael: I'll take that as a "no" for my question on re-incorporating FR into the GW. Sigh.
Kalanyr: Fair enough
Kalanyr: In the mythology not all of the Greek gods lived on olympus though hehe :)
SeanKR: If you like the PS planes, go ahead and use them. But FR doesn't require the use of the Great Wheel, and the Great Wheel isn't defined inthe DMG, so FR had to define it. And it was better to give FR its own than to use something inappropriate.
Sammael: Curiously enough, it seems as if the official fan conversion of Planescape *will* include the FR deities in the Great Wheel
RichBaker: Feel free to Rule 0 it. We won't know, we won't come to your house and break your fingers or anything.
KingOfChaos: Sammael: Just do as I do...FR 'planes' are a locked away area of a preexisting plane in the great wheel ;)
Kalanyr: It just seemed kinda weird if you were transition from 2e to 3e
pentalarc: well, if you want to do it yourself, it shouldn't be that hard to re-incorporate it.
Kalanyr: to have the planar structure suddenly changed without an explanation :)
Sammael: Oh, I use the Great Wheel anyway... but I don't want all the new players asking me what it is
pentalarc: if you want to use it for your own stuff, it doesn't have to be "official/optional"
RichBaker: Kalanyr: No worse than the loss of infrared vision for drow.
ats: RichBaker: LOL, well, I know my own experiences - my players have continuously asked "Why does it seem that almost everyone speaks Chondathan? That makes no sense!"
@Michael_Morris: Anyway, I don't know if either of you have a connection that can deal with MP3's, but if you do, I'm working on a CD to give to Ed at GC.
@Michael_Morris: I'd truly enjoy your opinion of what I have so far :)
Kalanyr: yeah but they got Darkvision so it still kinda made sense :)
ats: likewise, with the planar cosmology
SeanKR: ats: Most people speak Chondathan in western Faerun because long ago Chondath colonized most of that area, and those colonies spoke Chondathan.
Kalanyr: even if the whole magical clock thing in Menzo suddenly seemed kinda weird :)
ats: and about other things
Sammael: Loss of infravision in lieu of darkvision is not as major as a change in cosmology
ats: I find myself Rule O'ing lots of stuff for my players
@Michael_Morris: They are on this page, down on the bottom...
KingOfChaos: Yeh...its basically the same thing as darkvision anyway :P
ArthurQ: ok....flavor question i pulled off the top of my head here
ats: As far as planar cosmology - the answer really is "FR Cosmology" is the same as "GW Cosmology"
ArthurQ: Selune and the Trail of Tears......do they have atmopshere? or not.
* @Michael_Morris fades back into the shadows...
RichBaker: Sammael: Depends on your game. If you run a game that never goes extraplanar, the infravision thing is probably more significant.
ats: its simply a matter of how you look at it (i.e. the whole Einsteinian relativity stuff)
Sammael: Now that they've taken out the Spelljammer references, I'd wager they don't
ats: (I knew my physics courses in college would eventually come in handy...)
SeanKR: Arthur, you'd have to check the Realmspace SJ supplement for an answer on that; I can't remember if they do or not.
Sammael: Rich: Well, all of my games go extraplanar at some point, so...
ArthurQ: ah, 2e jargon, bleh :-P
SeanKR: We didn't take out the SJ references, we just didn't talk about them. See the section on the Sea of Night at the end of the Geog chapter in the FRCS.... :)
RichBaker: Arthur: We haven't consciously decided to ditch Spelljammer physics for Realmspace, we just haven't talked about it yet.
* KingOfChaos still uses the 2E books for FR, since they're a great fluff resource
ArthurQ: yet.....does that mean its possible for the future....like 2005 or 6? Not that i plan to explore FR's solar system....but placing a crystal castle on Selune where her avatar watches over Faerun sounds like fun :-P
* IIsi50MHz has an advantage/handicap in that area, since he never had 2e books
RichBaker: Couple more questions, then I gotta go.
Sammael: Back on topic: at what point did the Red Wizards become bald and tattooed?
ArthurQ: my players were freaked out enough when i put a stargate under waterdeep :-p
ArthurQ: Sammael: since sean was their first model :-P j/k
RichBaker: Sean, do you know? I don't.
IIsi50MHz: Arthur, a Stargate? Cool! (-;
KingOfChaos: I thought the Red Wizards were always bald and tattooed
KingOfChaos: At least Malagar was in Red Magic :P
ArthurQ: its Sean's personal clone army...
SeanKR: Rich, I dunno. I thought they had been that way for a while. It dates back at least to 2E, but you'd have to check Dreams of the Red Wizards for a 1E reference.
Sammael: Dreams of the Red Wizards features a bearded Red Wizard on the cover
Kalanyr: they were always tatooed :)
KingOfChaos: Heh..they can have beards!...just no hair on their noggin' :P
RichBaker: So, there you go. Since 1989, at least!
ArthurQ: OK anyone have questions for Rich?
BlackKnight: i thought it was a shaving thing...
ArthurQ: he does have to go soon
SeanKR: Sammael, there's goofiness in Spellbound, too ... it mentions that all RW are bald and tattoed, yet the illustrations of famous RW has some of them with hair. :P
Sammael: Yeah, I remember that
KingOfChaos: Thay is actually Sean's ideal country ;) Full of magic bald people :P
Sammael: Szass Tam was always drawn with an oriental-style beard and moustache
Sammael: Until 3E, that is
Sammael: Now he is a lot more "lichy" looking
* KingOfChaos dares SKR to go to GenCon with a fake tattoo of Cyric's holy symbol on his head :P
Sammael: Rich: care to talk about your Ghostwalk involvement?
SeanKR: No, thanks, Cyric is a LOSER. ;)
RichBaker: Sammael: I guess he woke up one day recently and said, You know, I'm like 35th level. Who cares if they know I'm a lich?
Kalanyr: You're a Bane fan ?
KingOfChaos: gah! I like Cyric, damnit! >:( What you have against an insane god? :P
ArthurQ: Rich: since when do Lich's sleep?
Sammael: Cyric=soon to be toast IMC
Kalanyr: Since when did Stasis Clones wake up and go crazy ?
ArthurQ: I'd like to see Cyric officially turn to the Shadow Weave honestly.....
Kalanyr: they cost too much XP to do that on a regular basis :)
* KingOfChaos hates the fact that Bane looks like his main NPC
ats: gotta go - Sean, Rich - thanks for spending time talking to us...
Kalanyr: Cyric would have to be subordinate to Shar for that to happen :)
ArthurQ: see ya ats
KingOfChaos: Kinda hard to have too massive bald black men being deities.. :P
RichBaker: ats -- my pleasure.
Kalanyr: Why can I not see that happening ?
ArthurQ: Kal: Shar is kinda hot, i wouldnt mind letting her dominate me.
RichBaker: See you folks around. Thanks for being interested!
KingOfChaos: She'd cut you like a fish, Art :P
talster: thanks rich
Sammael: Thanks for taking time to talk to us, Rich!
BlackKnight: bye rich
RichBaker: As Jim Butler used to say, Good gaming!
Kalanyr: Cya Rich, Thank you :)
KingOfChaos: He still says it :P
IIsi50MHz: Like a fish? Aeolius would add 'em to one of his uberaquaria
HiLiph: l8r and thanks
SeanKR: OK, I can do GW questions for a few minutes before I have to leave.
Tika: that he would, IIsi50MHz :)
talster: yeah im off, see u guys around, thanks a lot sean
SeanKR: Also, Monte & I are planning a GW chat later this month.
Sammael: Let's talk about incorporating Ghostwalk into FR
ArthurQ: Run a ghostwalk game at gencon dammit.
KingOfChaos: Where did the inspiration for Ghostwalk come from?
IIsi50MHz: Somebody walked on a ghost.
* IIsi50MHz flees expeditiously
KingOfChaos: It kinda reminds me of how, in greek mythology, the living could visit the dead in Hades.
IIsi50MHz: Hmm, or Earthsea.
Loonook: yeah, but visiting the end in Earthsea made you come back without powers riding a dragon...
* KingOfChaos pokes Sean
SeanKR: Well, Monte and I were sitting around brainstorming,
IIsi50MHz: Loonook , nope.
* KingOfChaos would like to see that hurricane :P
* Sammael imagines dark clouds hovering over Sean's head... scary
SeanKR: and we realized that the biggest downer is having your character die, mainly because it means you're not going to be able to play for a while (until you bring in a new character or you're raised),
IIsi50MHz: heh King
Loonook: well, it did in Tehanu... of course, that was sealing up some bad hoodoo but hey
SeanKR: so we thought a setting where you could still play your PC after dying would be novel and fun. It went from there. :)
IIsi50MHz: lol, another Java use bitten by the whitetext bug. Poor bloke.
KingOfChaos: How do the ghost in Ghostwalk differ from the ghost template in the MM?
Sammael: How did you get WotC to approve another one-shot product?
SeanKR: A few one-page summaries that got revised and sent to various people in charge,
IIsi50MHz: Tahanu, IMO <: Earthsea.
BlackKnight: it the ectoplasm that makes me laugh i keep imagining slimer....;)
SeanKR: and it was finally approved. We put together an outline, and got to work.
* KingOfChaos is all about undead
ArthurQ: I want to write a small Ghostbusters D20 game for Modern
Loonook: oh, of course... I blame the fact that it sucked as hard as a Mindflayer trying to feed off a Kobold
Sammael: How good will GW work in FR?
ArthurQ: would be very funny combinging Ghostwalk with Ghostbusters D20m
SeanKR: It was WotC's idea ... in 2000 they asked for one-shot world submissions from the staff. In early 2001 we were assigned to develop one of those ideas, or make our own if we wanted to. We decided to make our own.
IIsi50MHz: Still a Guest, LLama
IIsi50MHz: try /nick somenewnick
* KingOfChaos points to his question :P
SeanKR: Ectoplasm is all about the slime ... there's even a feat chain that lets you built semipermanent stuff with it. :)
Sammael: They published some of those feats on the WotC site yesterday
SeanKR: Well, it's a coastal area that needs to be near an island. You could set it on the Inner Sea, or in Tethyr, or (as the book suggests) have it be a replacement for Maztica.
KingOfChaos: Heh...they linked ectoplasm with psionics in 3E
SeanKR: Oh, missed that one.
SeanKR: Well, for one, GW ghosts aren't undead. It would suck if your ghost PC was obliterated by your cleric buddy....
Kalanyr: You killed of Maztica ?
Kalanyr: NOOOOOo :)
SeanKR: Hang on a sec....
IIsi50MHz: heh Sean
KingOfChaos: So they're like petitioners from Planescape 2e? :)
Sammael: I may place in Al-Qadim somewhere...
SeanKR: sorry, had to deal with a domestic emergency. Back to the ghost question...
Tika: I'm imagining this as more of a "Ghost" (the movie) situation where my PC is trying to avenge their own death or something
Tika: or tell someone else whodunnit
* IIsi50MHz oooo's at Tika
KingOfChaos: Nah..that would be the ghost from the MM, Tika :P
SeanKR: Two, they look just like people. Three, they don't get all of the powers the MM ghost template gives you (although you can take feats to develop those powers). Four...
Sammael: Can a GW ghost ever return to the world of the living? Raise dead? Resurrection? Wish?
IIsi50MHz: er, not ghostily /-: darn context (-:
SeanKR: ... four, some minor technical stuff that's too much to go into right now. But the main difference is that they're not undead.
SeanKR: In a way, they are like petitioners ... they can interact with the living, or they can "give up" and go to the True Afterlife.
* KingOfChaos sees himself playing a lot of these :P
IIsi50MHz: ooo, Fun.
Sammael: Dustmen wannabies. :P
KingOfChaos: Do the characters start over from level 1 when they die? Can they take any character class a living character can?
SeanKR: And yes, it can be like the movie "Ghost" where you're avenging your death. The funny thing is if you kill a bad guy in this campaign, you have to expect that his ghost is going to show up and want to kill you back. :)
BlackKnight: king of chaos needs biger hit die then :)
SeanKR: If you have the body, you can raise them just like any other dead person ... it just sucks the ghost into the body and they're alive.
IIsi50MHz: lol BlackKnight
SeanKR: You keep all of your levels and abilities, and can gain levels.
Kalanyr: so how can they not be Undead then if you can raise them?
Sammael: What happens if they've taken Eidolon levels while they were ghosts? Do they lose them?
SeanKR: There's a special limitation as to the classes they can take (there are two special ghost-only classes), but there's an optional rule to ignore that. :)
SeanKR: They're a special kind of outsider, technically.
SeanKR: BRB, Ircle is complaining at me.
SeanKR: Sammael, I'll get your question in a sec. :)
* Parts: SeanKR (~SeanKR@*.cvx27-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net)
Tika: Sean is from the Clan MacUser!
bynw: ircle is a MAC irc client ... like mIRC is a windows IRC client
ArthurQ: wb sean
Sammael: I know Sean uses a mac.
HiLiph: Dirty, dirty Macs
IIsi50MHz: Weeeeeeeeeeeeee, Macintosh
IIsi50MHz: except the Performa series. bleck
HiLiph: Macs: The most powerful, full-featured word processor ever made. ;)
BlackKnight: i like imacs wouldnt buy one tho
IIsi50MHz: huh? That's dumb.
SeanKR: Ok, if you have eidolon levels (one of the special ghost-only classes) and you're brought back from the dead, you can do one of two things: (1) keep them, which usually sucks because you can't use your ghost powers if you're not alive, or (2) trade them in for levels in any class you actually have. Option (2) is called a "life epiphany." So a ghost Sor4/Eidolon4 that is brought back to life could instantly become a living Sor8.
KingOfChaos: SKR: Can I have a ghost wizard? :)
GuestLlama: Can we expect a map of Manifest and the surrounding countries in a web enhancement?
Sammael: Sean: great rule
IIsi50MHz: It's even the opposite of the way most people make fun.
SeanKR: Yes, ghost is a template, so you can have any sort of PH character & class, just add the template.
Sammael: No HD change this time?
KingOfChaos: w00t! :D
Sammael: Also, can non-sentient beings become ghosts?
SeanKR: GuestLama, there was a map done with the nearby countries, it was accidentally left out of the book (long story). I sent WotC my original map file and they're going to have the map made and post it on the site.
* KingOfChaos could see this setting being a 'purgatory' for any campaign setting..
Tika: a ghost dog?
Sammael: A ghost tarrasque
ArthurQ: Sean: lots of accidents at WOTC happen to you >_<
SeanKR: No HD change, you're just you with the template and a coulpe of quirks.
IIsi50MHz: Ghost tribbles... eek
Sammael: A vampiric ghost half-fiend tarrasque of legend
Sammael: Fun with templates, as usual.
KingOfChaos: I also don't see a lot of clerics being in this setting ;) Since by their very nature they would want to travel to their god's afterlife to enjoy the benefits of worshipping that deity.
IIsi50MHz: hehehehehe King
SeanKR: Actually, only humanoids can naturally become ghosts ... other creatures (like yuan-ti, dragons, etc.) just die and go to the True Afterlife. But there are spells you can cast if you're one of those creatures that lets you come back as a ghost. Likewise, there are spells that send you right to the True Afterlife when you die, even if you're a humanoid.
HiLiph: Great - thanks to this chat, I'm now myseriously compelled to go out and buy the GW, which I hadn't originally planned on ;)
Tika: I dunno, KoC... it could be their diety's will that they perform some grand task before joining them...
Sammael: Good point, King
Tika: which could be fun :)
* KingOfChaos already has an adventure idea for this setting
Sammael: I am also now considering getting GW, which I wasn't before
SeanKR: King, or you could say that the clerics aren't willing to give up on the living yet and still have work to do among the faithful and heathens. :)
Sammael: I just don't have the $$$ right now.
bynw: it looks like something i may want to get ....
bynw: freebie for running psionics.net? :-)
* IIsi50MHz makes the jandricGuest type "/nick jandric"
BlackKnight: hey jandric
IIsi50MHz: heh bynw
KingOfChaos: In FR, you could have Manifest be over-looked by the clerics of Kelemvor and explain that its a way station between the world of the living and the afterlife that Kelemvor uses to save more souls from damnation by giving them a 'second chance' to change their ways before truely dying.
* KingOfChaos can see Kelemvor doing that..
BlackKnight: KoChas clearly put some thought in already.
DD: Kelemvor was already "scolded" for being easy on the dead, though...
Sammael: While interesting, I don't see how it works for "pure" souls
KingOfChaos: You could call it the 'Final Trial' :P
SeanKR: That would work. We leave it open in the book on how to incorporate it (other than a few guidelines). It suggests that Manifest be in an out-of-the-way place so you can explain why your worldly PCs and players haven't heard of it before.
jandricGuest: Where would you suggest putting it in the realms?
BlackKnight: I was gonna turn it into Velen....
SeanKR: Jandric, anywhere there's a coast and an island. :)
Sammael: Al-Qadim, Haunted Lands. Definitely.
KingOfChaos: Nope..I am just this creative all the time ;)
KingOfChaos: They have that are of FR that they never explained...
KingOfChaos: It would be good to place it there :P
* KingOfChaos looks at the FR map
Sammael: Damn, the Haunted Lands's sea exit is too close to Hiyal
KingOfChaos: Sammael: Pure souls wouldn't have much of a need to become a ghost in Manifest...they'd probably travel on to the afterlife.
Sammael: I'll just change the map. :D
SeanKR: YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE MAP! NOOOOO!!!!! ;)
Sammael: KingOfChaos: Reasonable, but won't work for a number of players
KingOfChaos: Hey, my favorite color is here :D
* IIsi50MHz gets Harold
IIsi50MHz: Hello Purple
Sammael: Why not? You've practically ripped the map apart for 3E anyway. ;)
* IIsi50MHz goes Deep and puts on some DP
SeanKR: Heh heh heh... :)
BlackKnight: * Bk hope its child in time that IIsi50MHz is playing
* IIsi50MHz casts Decipher Script on BlackKnight
KingOfChaos: Sean: This isn't about Ghostwalk, but let me ask it anyway. Is that red hairy crap down the front of Manshoon's outfit actually his beard? :P
Sammael: I always wanted to know as well
KingOfChaos: That has been bugging me for a while :P
BlackKnight: child in time=deep purple song
SeanKR: Let me check.... :)
IIsi50MHz: BK, tgin-one-momen-in-time
HiLiph: Hmmm. . .pouring rain in NYC right now, yet still, I posess the comulsion to run out and buy GW. . .
HiLiph: compulsion ^
SeanKR: King, which book's illustration are you talking about? - HiLiph is ~Somebody@*.ny5030.east.verizon.net * Salvation HiLiph on #Forgottenrealms HiLiph using chat.psionics.net The Internet's Premiere Role-Playing Chat Community HiLiph has been idle 11secs, signed on Sat Jun 07 13:16:41 HiLiph End of /WHOIS list -
IIsi50MHz: hmm, comulsion. Good word.
IIsi50MHz: Now it needs a meaning.
PDK: Is this exclusively about Ghostwalk? I'd like to know so my next question doesn't make me look like a complete dolt! :)
Sammael: You can see it on that pic, as well as the one in the ELH
KingOfChaos: Well, you have the one located at the back of the FRCS and the one in the ELH which looks like he either needs to shave his chest more or that hes never shaved a day in his life ;)
SeanKR: Oh, Manshoon...
HiLiph: Aww. . IIsi5 - yer still busted up about that Mac comment, eh? hee hee
SeanKR: PDK, it's not just about GW
PDK: ah! thanks!
SeanKR: Ah, I don't have the ELH here to check, so lemme check the FRCS....
IIsi50MHz: HiL, I'd forgotten actually. Can't be busted up about it when I don't understand it.
Sammael: ^ELH Manshoon
KingOfChaos: He kinda reminds me of the hair monster from Looney Toons with the tennis shoes in a better outfit :P
PDK: since Rich and you are on this chat room right now, any chance of knowing if any regional supplement for the great land of Cormyr is planned for the future?
ArthurQ: the red one?
IIsi50MHz: (Deferred execution. I put it on cold storage until I get back to the collective) (-;
KingOfChaos: Yep..heh heh
ArthurQ: PDK: Rich left....Sean is still here though
ArthurQ: and that question was already answered
SeanKR: King, I think that's just a furry part of his outfit. :)
@Michael_Morris: I'm in PM hell...
Sammael: PDK: Rich said that Cormyr is not planned for the near future
ArthurQ: there might be one, but later on.....they are doing stuff they havnt covered yet.
@Michael_Morris: Sean, did you get to listen to those MP3's?
KingOfChaos: Ah..Disco Manshoon eh? :P
PDK: m'kay... thanks guys!
SeanKR: PDK, the short answer is "we'd like to cover everything eventually," but no precise information was given on what's next.
PDK: SKR: is Cormyr a project that would interest you?
* KingOfChaos is now known as Manshoon
SeanKR: MMMM, I'm on a dial-up connection right now. :P
Manshoon: 'Stayin' alive! Stayin' alive..ah ah ah ah Stayin' alive'
* Parts: Guest71 (SKR-jPilot@*.dsl.mindspring.com)
* Manshoon dances like John Travolta
SeanKR: PDK: Yes, I wrote most of the Cormyr section for the FRCS and like that area a lot.
* Manshoon is now known as KingOfChaos
@Michael_Morris: Sean: I understand. I wouldn't touch them with dial up either :)
@Michael_Morris: But I'll have some CD's with me at GC. I'll be making around 10.
SeanKR: Well, guys, I gotta go, Willow and I have some shopping to do today, and my brother is in from out of town and I haven't seen him in 10 years.
PDK: Very good to know! I would love if they'd put out a Cormyr product with you on the cover... maybe a team project between you and Ed? ;)
@Michael_Morris: One for Ed, and the others for game studios as a demo CD.
SeanKR: Feel free to hand me a CD at GenCon. :)
@Michael_Morris: Ok. I'll make it 11 then :)
SeanKR: PDK: Maybe! (Ed wrote the Cormyr stuff that I didn't. :))
Doc: bye SKR
Sammael: Good talking to you, Sean. Have fun working on Van Buren. ;)
KingOfChaos: Okay Sean..thanks for coming in..and I can't promise not to noogie your head at GenCon ;)
BlackKnight: se yah dude
PDK: bye SKR! thanks for dropping by!
SeanKR: Bye, guys. Thanks for coming to the chat!
SeanKR: Shawn, we'll see who noogies who.... :)
PDK: I'll wait till the guest of honor leaves the room: that's the polite thing to do! :-)
* KingOfChaos cracks knuckles
ArthurQ: CHAT DONE! heh
BlackKnight: bye guys